Saturday, April 21, 2001

Criticisms of Stratigraphy, Dendrochronology, and C-14 dating methods

Criticisms of C-14 dating methods

The methods used to discover the presence of Carbon-14 (C-14) as a means for dating are suspect as that atomic element is subject to environmental influence, including the fall-out from nuclear explosions and extra-planetary impact.
The purpose for this page is to provide a database of dissenting information concerning C-14 dating, most prominently testing of soft-tissue collected from Dinosaur fossils. This page has articles skeptical of Carbon-14 dating methods, and an article in defense of the method. Secular historians need not debate religious merit, but to accommodate for the discrepancies in Carbon-14 dating, as this helps sustains the exploration of a new narrative model that may be yet free of conflicting religiously ideological tendencies.
A question to sum it all up: "Either dinosaurs lived during historical times, or C-14 dating is horribly wrong!" Read more about "Dinosaure" and Drakons [link]

* "Errors are feared in carbon dating" (1990-05-31, []

* "CO2 emissions are ruining C14 readings" ( []

* "Fossil fuel emissions will complicate radiocarbon dating, warns scientist; By 2050 a new T-shirt could have the same radiocarbon date as a robe from a thousand years earlier" (2015-07-20, []

* "Carbon Dating Gets a Reset; Climate records from a Japanese lake are providing a more accurate timeline for dating objects as far back as 50,000 years" (2012-10-18, []

* C-14 discrepancies found in the action of dating coal []

* "SHROUD OF TURIN PICTURE TOUR" (by DR. JOHN DESALVO, page 1 [], page 2 [], page 3 [], page 4 [], page 5 []

* C-14 dating researchers specializing in dinosaur soft-tissue [] []
* "Radiocarbon dating basic introduction" ( [], with dinosaur soft tissue

* "Factors Affecting the Fluctuation of 14C Dating" (by Arnold Mendez) text [] (.pdf) []

* " ‘Nuclear bomb’ carbon dating shows Greenland shark can live for 400yrs" (2016-08-12, []

* "Fossil fuel emissions will complicate radiocarbon dating; Fossil fuel emissions could soon make it impossible for radiocarbon dating to distinguish new materials from artefacts that are hundreds of years old" (2015-07-20, Imperial College London) []

* "Radiocarbon Dating" (2010-03-04, []

Carbon-14 dating is the standard method used by scientists to determine the age of certain fossilized remains.  As scientists will often claim something to be millions or billions of years old (ages that do not conform to the Biblical account of the age of the earth), Christians are often left wondering about the accuracy of the carbon-14 method.  The truth is, carbon-14 dating (or radiocarbon dating, as it’s also called) is not a precise dating method in many cases, due to faulty assumptions and other limitations on this method.
Carbon has a weight of twelve atomic mass units (AMU’s), and is the building block of all organic matter (plants and animals).  A small percentage of carbon atoms have an atomic weight of 14 AMU’s.  This is carbon-14.  Carbon-14 is an unstable, radioactive isotope of carbon 12.  As with any radioactive isotope, carbon-14 decays over time.  The half-life of carbon 14 is approximate 5,730 years.  That means if you took one pound of 100 percent carbon-14, in 5,730 years, you would only have half a pound left.
Carbon-14 is created in the upper atmosphere as nitrogen atoms are bombarded by cosmic radiation. For every one trillion carbon-12 atoms, you will find one carbon-14 atoms.  The carbon-14 that results from the reaction caused by cosmic radiation quickly changes to carbon dioxide, just like normal carbon-12 would.  Plants utilize, or “breath in” carbon dioxide, then ultimately release oxygen for animals to inhale.  The carbon-14 dioxide is utilized by plants in the same way normal carbon dioxide is.  This carbon-14 dioxide then ends up in humans and other animals as it moves up the food chain.
There is then a ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 in the bodies of plants, humans, and other animals that can fluctuate, but will be fixed at the time of death.  After death, the carbon-14 would begin to decay at the rate stated above.  In 1948, Dr. W.F. Libby introduced the carbon-14 dating method at the University of Chicago.  The premise behind the method is to determine the ratio of carbon-14 left in organic matter, and by doing so, estimate how long ago death occurred by running the ratio backwards.  The accuracy of this method, however, relies on several faulty assumptions.
First, for carbon-14 dating to be accurate, one must assume the rate of decay of carbon-14 has remained constant over the years.  However, evidence indicates that the opposite is true. Experiments have been performed using the radioactive isotopes of uranium-238 and iron-57, and have shown that rates can and do vary.  In fact, changing the environments surrounding the samples can alter decay rates.
The second faulty assumption is that the rate of carbon-14 formation has remained constant over the years.  There are a few reasons to believe this assumption is erroneous.  The industrial revolution greatly increased the amount of carbon-12 released into the atmosphere through the burning of coal.  Also, the atomic bomb testing around 1950 caused a rise in neutrons, which increased carbon-14 concentrations.  The great flood which Noah and family survived would have uprooted and/or buried entire forests.  This would decrease the release of carbon-12 to the atmosphere through the decay of vegetation.
Third, for carbon-14 dating to be accurate, the concentrations of carbon-14 and carbon-12 must have remained constant in the atmosphere.  In addition to the reasons mentioned in the previous paragraph, the flood provides another evidence that this is a faulty assumption.  During the flood, subterranean water chambers that were under great pressure would have been breached.  This would have resulted in an enormous amount of carbon-12 being released into the oceans and atmosphere.  The effect would be not unlike opening a can of soda and having the carbon dioxide fizzing out.  The water in these subterranean chambers would not have contained carbon-14, as the water was shielded from cosmic radiation.  This would have upset the ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12.
To make carbon-14 dating work, Dr. Libby also assumed that the amount of carbon-14 being presently produced had equaled the amount of carbon-12 – he assumed that they had reached a balance.  The formation of carbon-14 increases with time, and at the time of creation was probably at or near zero.  Since carbon-14 is radioactive, it begins to decay immediately as it’s formed.  If you start with no carbon-14 in the atmosphere, it would take over 50,000 years for the amount being produced to reach equilibrium with the amount decaying.  One of the reasons we know that the earth is less than 50,000 years old is because of the biblical record.  Another reason we can know this is because the amount of carbon-14 in the atmosphere is only 78% what it would be if the earth were old.
Finally, Dr. Libby and the evolutionist crowd have assumed that all plant and animal life utilize carbon-14 equally as they do carbon-12.  To be grammatically crass, this ain’t necessarily so.  Live mollusks off the Hawaiian coast have had their shells dated with the carbon-14 method.  These test showed that the shells died 2000 years ago!  This news came as quite a shock to the mollusks that had been using those shells until just recently.
We’ve listed five faulty assumptions here that have caused overestimates of age using the carbon-14 method.  The list of non-compliant dates from this method is endless.  Most evolutionists today would conclude that carbon-14 dating is – at best – reliable for only the last 3000 to 3500 years. There is another reason that carbon-14 dating has yielded questionable results – human bias.
If you’ve ever been part of a medical study, you’re probably familiar with the terms “blind study” and “double-blind study”.  In a blind study, using carbon-14 dating for example, a person would send in a few quality control samples along with the actual sample to the laboratory.  The laboratory analyst should not know which sample is the one of interest.  In this way, the analyst could not introduce bias into the dating of the actual sample.  In a double-blind study (using an experimental drug study as an example), some patients will be given the experimental drug, while others will be given a placebo (a harmless sugar pill).  Neither the patients nor the doctors while know who gets what.  This provides an added layer of protection against bias.
Radiocarbon dates that do not fit a desired theory are often excluded by alleging cross-contamination of the sample.  In this manner, an evolutionist can present a sample for analysis, and tell the laboratory that he assumes the sample to be somewhere between 50,000 years old and 100,000 years old.  Dates that do not conform to this estimate are thrown out.  Repeated testing of the sample may show nine tests that indicate an age of 5000 to 10,000 years old, and one test that shows an age of 65,000 years old.  The nine results showing ages that do not conform to the pre-supposed theory are excluded.  This is bad science, and it is practiced all the time to fit with the evolutionary model.
The Shroud of Turin, claimed to be the burial cloth of Christ, was supposedly dated by a blind test. Actually, the control specimens were so dissimilar that the technicians at the three laboratories making the measurements could easily tell which specimen was from the Shroud.  This would be like taking a piece of wood and two marbles and submitting them to the lab with the instructions that “one of these is from an ancient ponderosa pine, guess which.”  The test would have been blind if the specimens had been reduced to carbon powder before they were given to the testing laboratories.  Humans are naturally biased.  We tend to see what we want to see, and explain away unwanted data.
Perhaps the best description of the problem in attempting to use the Carbon-14 dating method is to be found in the words of Dr. Robert Lee. In 1981, he wrote an article for the Anthropological Journal of Canada, in which stated:
"The troubles of the radiocarbon dating method are undeniably deep and serious. Despite 35 years of technological refinement and better understanding, the underlying assumptions have been strongly challenged, and warnings are out that radiocarbon may soon find itself in a crisis situation. Continuing use of the method depends on a fix-it-as-we-go approach, allowing for contamination here, fractionation there, and calibration whenever possible. It should be no surprise then, that fully half of the dates are rejected. The wonder is, surely, that the remaining half has come to be accepted….  No matter how useful it is, though, the radiocarbon method is still not capable of yielding accurate and reliable results. There are gross discrepancies, the chronology is uneven and relative, and the accepted dates are actually the selected dates.”
The accuracy of carbon-14 dating relies on faulty assumptions, and is subject to human bias.  At best, radiocarbon dating is only accurate for the past few thousand years.  As we’ve seen though, even relatively youthful samples are often dated incorrectly.  The Biblical record gives us an indication of an earth that is relatively young.  The most reliable use of radiocarbon dating supports that position.  This method of dating, overall, tends to be as faulty and ill conceived as the evolutionary model that is was designed to support.

Criticisms of Stratigraphy dating methods

* Critique of Guy Berthault's "Stratigraphy" [];
Response by Guy Berthault to criticism of his "Stratigraphy" []

* "Introduction to Sequence Stratigraphy" (.pdf) ( []
* "Sequence Stratigraphy (revised)" ( (.pdf) []

* "Growth rings on rocks give up North American climate secrets" (2016-01-11, []. Photo caption: Magnified photograph of a cross-section through a 3 mm-thick pedothem soil deposit from Wyoming. The line of dots are laser ablation sampling spots that are 0.1 mm in diameter. The innermost mineral material is about 150,000 years old, and becomes progressively younger towards the outside.

* "Berthault's "Stratigraphy": Rediscovering What Geologists Already Know and Strawperson Misrepresentations of Modern Applications of Steno's Principles" (by Kevin R. Henke, Ph.D.) []

* "Bacterial resistance to copper in the making for thousands of years; Genetic changes pose risks to human immunity" (2016-03-16, [] [begin excerpt]:  “About 2,000 years ago Romans were pumping a ton of copper dust into the environment,” Slot said. Ice cores from Greenland have supported this theory, showing likely high copper emissions during the time. [end excerpt]

* "Mystery mummified monster discovered in Siberia diamond pit; Remains of a strange creature have been found by Siberian miners in diamond-yielding sands" (2016-08-10, [] [begin excerpt]: A bizarre mummified creature has been discovered at the heart of a diamond mine in the Sakha Republic, in northern Siberia. This ancient "monster" could date back to between 252 and 66 million years ago as it was found in sand deposits of that age.
The Siberian Times reports that the miners who found the remains had been working at the Udachnaya pipe diamond deposit, an open-pit diamond mine located just outside the Arctic Circle. [end excerpt]

* "Idaho man finds mammoth tusk while digging on his property" (2016-08-08, AP Newswire) [] [begin excerpt]: An Idaho man stumbled upon a rare find while using a backhoe to dig in a gravel pit on his property.
"It came to the point where I seen something weird or different inside the hill so I just stopped, kinda brushed off some of it," Kasey Keller of Preston told KIFI-TV ( ).
Upon closer inspection, the object Keller first thought was a plastic pipe or petrified wood appeared to be bone. He decided to call in the experts.
The object, according to Utah State University, was a 3½-foot tusk of a Columbian mammoth. It could be anywhere from 12,000 to 15,000 years old.
Both Utah State University and Brigham Young University took a piece of the tusk for carbon dating. [end excerpt]

"The Bible and Radiometric dating (The Problem with Carbon 14 and other dating methods)"
Many people are under the false impression that carbon dating proves that dinosaurs and other extinct animals lived millions of years ago. What many do not realize is that carbon dating is not used to date dinosaurs.
The reason? Carbon dating is only accurate back a few thousand years. So if scientists believe that a creature lived millions of years ago, then they would need to date it another way.
But there is the problem. They assume dinosaurs lived millions of years ago (instead of thousands of years ago like the bible says). They ignore evidence that does not fit their preconceived notion.
What would happen if a dinosaur bone were carbon dated? - At Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Scientists dated dinosaur bones using the Carbon dating method. The age they came back with was only a few thousand years old.
This date did not fit the preconceived notion that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. So what did they do? They threw the results out. And kept their theory that dinosaurs lived "millions of years ago" instead.
This is common practice.
They they use potassium argon, or other methods, and date the fossils again.
They do this many times, using a different dating method each time. The results can be as much as 150 million years different from each other! - how’s that for an "exact" science?
They then pick the date they like best, based upon their preconceived notion of how old their theory says the fossil should be (based upon the Geologic column).
So they start with the assumption that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, then manipulate the results until they agree with their conclusion.
Their assumptions dictate their conclusions.
So why is it that if the date doesn't fit the theory, they change the facts?
Unbiased science changes the theory to support the facts. They should not change the facts to fit the theory.
A Dinosaur carbon dated at 9,890 and 16,000 years old NOT millions of years old like evolutionists claim
I have documentation of an Allosaurus bone that was sent to The University of Arizona to be carbon dated. The results were 9,890 +/- 60 years and 16,120 +/- 220 years.
"We didn't tell them that the bones they were dating were dinosaur bones. The result was sample B at 16,120 years. The Allosaurus dinosaur was supposed to be around 140,000,000 years. The samples of bone were blind samples."
This test was done on August 10, 1990

Comment from a reader: "Of course carbon dating isn't going to work on your Allosaurus bone. That method is only accurate to 40,000 years. So I would expect to get some weird number like 16,000 years if you carbon date a millions of years old fossil. 16.000 years by the way is still 10,000 years before your God supposedly created the Earth." [signed] Amy M 12/11/01
My response: I explain the limits of Carbon dating below. One thing you might want to ask yourself though, is how do you know it is millions of years old, giving an "incorrect" date (one that you think is too young) or if it actually is only a few thousand years old.
As far as your comments that 16,000 years is older than when God created the earth, we know that there is more carbon in the atmosphere than there was a thousand years ago. So a date of 9,000 or 16,000 years is more likely to be less. Perhaps only 6,000 years old.

30,000 year limit to Carbon dating -
Carbon dating is a good dating tool for some things that we know the relative date of. Something that is 300 years old for example. But it is far from an exact Science. It is somewhat accurate back to a few thousand years, but carbon dating is not accurate past this. Thirty thousand years is about the limit. However, this does not mean that the earth is 30 thousand years old. It is much younger than that. (1)
Because of the earth’s declining magnetic field, more radiation (which forms C14) is allowed into the earth’s atmosphere.
Willard Libby (December 17, 1908 – September 8, 1980) and his colleagues discovered the technique of radiocarbon dating in 1949. Libbey knew that atmospheric carbon would reach equilibrium in 30,000 years. Because he assumed that the earth was millions of years old, he believed it was already at equilibrium. However each time they test it, they find more c14 in the atmosphere, and have realized that we are only 1/3 the way to equilibrium. (1)
- What does this mean? It means that based on c14 formation, the earth has to be less than 1/3 of 30,000 years old. This would make the earth less than 10,000 years old! (1)
Carbon dating is based on the assumption that the amount of C14 in the atmosphere has always been the same. But there is more carbon in the atmosphere now than there was 4 thousand years ago. (1)
Since carbon dating measures the amount of carbon still in a fossil, then the date given is not accurate. Carbon dating makes an animal living 4 thousand years ago (when there was less atmospheric carbon) appear to have lived thousands of years before it actually did.

What was the original amount of Carbon in the atmosphere?
A great book on the flaws of dating methods is "Radioisotopes and the age of the earth" (edited by Larry Vardiman, Andrew Snelling, Eugene F. Chaffin. Published by Institute for Creation Research; December 2000)
Dating methods are based on 3 unprovable and questionable assumptions ("Radioisotopes and the age of the earth" pg v):
1) That the rate of decay has been constant throughout time.
2). That the isotope abundances in the specimen dated have not been altered during its history by addition or removal of either parent or daughter isotopes
3) That when the rock first formed it contained a known amount of daughter material
We must recognize that past processes may not be occurring at all today, and that some may have occurred at rates and intensities far different from similar processes today. ("Radioisotopes and the age of the earth" pg vii)
To know if carbon dating is accurate, we would have to know how much carbon was in the atmosphere in the beginning, and also how long it has been increasing, or decreasing. Since no one was there, no one knows for sure. It's like trying to figure out how long a candle has been burning, without knowing the rate at which it burns, or its original size.

God cursed the ground (the rocks too!) -
See my commentary on Genesis 3 verse 17 "..cursed is the ground for your sake"
When this happened there was a burst of radioactity that made the rocks appear older than they were.
Wouldn't this make all the rocks appear the same age?
"The rock question is fairly simple and has to do with the basic elements which made up these rocks in the beginning. When each of these elements, uranium, potassium, radium etc. were switched on, it would only be natural for them to behave according to their individual properties, eventually acquiring stable half-lives of decay, at different rates. Let's say initially every radioactive element was "exploded" into existence from pre-existent elements. None of these early faster half-lives would be the same as they are today. As time progressed each would begin to acquire its slower modern-day stable half-life, but would they all acquire these stable rates in a uniformity which would keep them all in synchrony? I doubt it. If they did, all would give the same ages, you are right. Each would probably arrive at equilibrium at different times. Look at biological breakdown everywhere, it proceeds at different rates. Look at the world from a devolutionary viewpoint and see how perfection has been lost and breakdown has proceeded in spurts and stasis periods. Some of us have lost more information than others, that's why some are at Harvard, but others, more unfortunate, [the same] age struggle with debilitating genetic degenerative diseases like Lupus, MS, ALS, Crohn's and many other autoimmune diseases. The keys of which are locked in the "vault of degeneration knowledge" that evolutionists are unwilling to open for fear that we creationists might be correct." [signed] Jack Cuozzo 3/02

Carbon dates they did not like -
Carbon dating is frequently an embarrassment to Scientists.
Here are some Carbon 14 dates that were rejected because they did not agree with evolution
(If you do not see a chart below, then your web browser does not support tables - please email me for these dates)

Living penguins have been carbon dated and the results said that they had died 8,000 years ago! This is just one of many inaccurate dates given by Carbon dating.

The shells of living mollusks have been dated using the carbon 14 method, only to find that the method gave it a date as having been dead for 23,000 years!(Science vol. 141 1963 pg. 634-637)

Dead seal:
The body of a seal that had been dead for 30 years was carbon dated, and the results stated that the seal had died 4,600 years ago! ("The Illustrated Origins Answer Book" by Paul Taylor) --
Living seal
What about a freshly killed seal? Well, they dated one of those too, the results stated that the seal had died 1,300 years ago. (Antarctic Journal vol. 6 Sept-Oct 1971 pg. 211)
Antarctic seawater has a low level of C14. Consequently organisms living there dated by C14 give ages much older than their true age.
A lake Bonney seal known to have died only a few weeks before was carbon dated. The results stated that the seal had died between 515 and 715 years ago. (Antarctic Journal, Washington)

Shells from living snails were dated using the Carbon 14 method. The results stated that the snails had died 27,000 years ago. (Science vol. 224 1984 pg. 58-61)

There are many more examples that I will add later. But the ones above give you a general idea.
There are other methods of dating. They too, give varied results.

Potassium-argon dating -
The potassium-argon method was used to date volcanic material in this next example.
"Scientists got dates of 164 million and 3 billion years for two Hawaiian lava flows. But these lava flows happened only about 200 years ago in 1800 and 1801. ("Dry bones and other fossils" by Dr. Gary Parker)

Volcanic ash has also been known to give dates much older than they actually were.
Lava flows at Mt Ngauruhoe, New Zealand gave erroneous dates (from K-Ar analyses) ranging from <0.27 to 3.5 (± 0.2) million years old. These rocks were "observed to have cooled from lavas 25-50 years ago".("Radioactive ‘dating’ failure: Recent New Zealand lava flows yield ‘ages’ of millions of years" by Andrew Snelling published in: Creation Ex Nihilo 22(1):18-21 December 1999 - February 2000)
The equipment was checked and the samples were run again to exclude the possibility of lab error but similar results were obtained.("Radioactive ‘dating’ failure: Recent New Zealand lava flows yield ‘ages’ of millions of years" by Andrew Snelling published in: Creation Ex Nihilo 22(1):18-21 December 1999 - February 2000)
Because the actual age of these rocks is known to be less than 50 years old, it is clear that these K-Ar ‘ages’ are due to ‘excess’ argon which was inherited from the magma source area deep in the earth.("Radioactive ‘dating’ failure: Recent New Zealand lava flows yield ‘ages’ of millions of years" by Andrew Snelling published in: Creation Ex Nihilo 22(1):18-21 December 1999 - February 2000)
See also the video: Mount St. Helens: Explosive Evidence for Catastrophe Dr. Steve Austin

Has the rate of decay remained constant?
The biggest problem with dating methods is the assumption that the rate of decay has remained constant. There is no way to prove it. In fact there is much evidence to show this rate has not remained constant, and that it is decaying quicker and quicker. Just what the bible, and a Devolution and degenerating model of the earth would predict.

A joke about Dinosaurs and dating Dinosaur Bones -
Some tourists in The American Museum of Natural History were marveling at the dinosaur bones on display. One of them asked the guard, "Can you tell me how old the dinosaur bones are?"
The guard replied, "They are 65 million, four years, and six months old."
"That's an awfully exact number," says the tourist. "How do you know their age so precisely?"
The guard answered, "Well, the dinosaur bones were sixty five million years old when I started working here, and that was four and a half years ago."

Carbon dating references:
1) From a video Lecture by Dr. Kent Hovind
6) Antarctic Journal, Washington
10) "Dry bones and other fossils" by Dr. Gary Parker


"Answers to Creationist Attacks on Carbon-14 Dating"
by Christopher Gregory Weber for "Creation/Evolution" magazine (1982) []:
Radiocarbon dating can easily establish that humans have been on the earth for over twenty thousand years, at least twice as long as creationists are willing to allow. Therefore it should come as no surprise that creationists at the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) have been trying desperately to discredit this method for years. They have their work cut out for them, however, because radiocarbon (C-14) dating is one of the most reliable of all the radiometric dating methods.
This article will answer several of the most common creationist attacks on carbon-14 dating, using the question-answer format that has proved so useful to lecturers and debaters.

Question: How does carbon-14 dating work?
Answer: Cosmic rays in the upper atmosphere are constantly converting the isotope nitrogen-14 (N-14) into carbon-14 (C-14 or radiocarbon). Living organisms are constantly incorporating this C-14 into their bodies along with other carbon isotopes. When the organisms die, they stop incorporating new C-14, and the old C-14 starts to decay back into N-14 by emitting beta particles. The older an organism's remains are, the less beta radiation it emits because its C-14 is steadily dwindling at a predictable rate. So, if we measure the rate of beta decay in an organic sample, we can calculate how old the sample is. C-14 decays with a half-life of 5,730 years.

Question: Kieth and Anderson radiocarbon-dated the shell of a living freshwater mussel and obtained an age of over two thousand years. ICR creationists claim that this discredits C-14 dating. How do you reply?
Answer: It does discredit the C-14 dating of freshwater mussels, but that's about all. Kieth and Anderson show considerable evidence that the mussels acquired much of their carbon from the limestone of the waters they lived in and from some very old humus as well. Carbon from these sources is very low in C-14 because these sources are so old and have not been mixed with fresh carbon from the air. Thus, a freshly killed mussel has far less C-14 than a freshly killed something else, which is why the C-14 dating method makes freshwater mussels seem older than they really are. When dating wood there is no such problem because wood gets its carbon straight from the air, complete with a full dose of C-14. The creationists who quote Kieth and Anderson never tell you this, however.

Question: A sample that is more than fifty thousand years old shouldn't have any measurable C-14. Coal, oil, and natural gas are supposed to be millions of years old; yet creationists say that some of them contain measurable amounts of C-14, enough to give them C-14 ages in the tens of thousands of years. How do you explain this?

Answer: Very simply. Radiocarbon dating doesn't work well on objects much older than twenty thousand years, because such objects have so little C-14 left that their beta radiation is swamped out by the background radiation of cosmic rays and potassium-40 (K-40) decay. Younger objects can easily be dated, because they still emit plenty of beta radiation, enough to be measured after the background radiation has been subtracted out of the total beta radiation. However, in either case, the background beta radiation has to be compensated for, and, in the older objects, the amount of C-14 they have left is less than the margin of error in measuring background radiation. As Hurley points out: "Without rather special developmental work, it is not generally practicable to measure ages in excess of about twenty thousand years, because the radioactivity of the carbon becomes so slight that it is difficult to get an accurate measurement above background radiation." (p. 108)
Cosmic rays form beta radiation all the time; this is the radiation that turns N-14 to C-14 in the first place. K-40 decay also forms plenty of beta radiation. Stearns, Carroll, and Clark point out that ". . . this isotope [K-40] accounts for a large part of the normal background radiation that can be detected on the earth's surface" (p. 84). This radiation cannot be totally eliminated from the laboratory, so one could probably get a "radiocarbon" date of fifty thousand years from a pure carbon-free piece of tin. However, you now know why this fact doesn't at all invalidate radiocarbon dates of objects younger than twenty thousand years and is certainly no evidence for the notion that coals and oils might be no older than fifty thousand years.

Question: Creationists such as Cook (1966) claim that cosmic radiation is now forming C-14 in the atmosphere about one and one-third times faster than it is decaying. If we extrapolate backwards in time with the proper equations, we find that the earlier the historical period, the less C-14 the atmosphere had. If we extrapolate as far back as ten thousand years ago, we find the atmosphere would not have had any C-14 in it at all. If they are right, this means all C-14 ages greater than two or three thousand years need to be lowered drastically and that the earth can be no older than ten thousand years. How do you reply?
Answer: Yes, Cook is right that C-14 is forming today faster than it's decaying. However, the amount of C-14 has not been rising steadily as Cook maintains; instead, it has fluctuated up and down over the past ten thousand years. How do we know this? From radiocarbon dates taken from bristlecone pines.
There are two ways of dating wood from bristlecone pines: one can count rings or one can radiocarbon-date the wood. Since the tree ring counts have reliably dated some specimens of wood all the way back to 6200 BC, one can check out the C-14 dates against the tree-ring-count dates. Admittedly, this old wood comes from trees that have been dead for hundreds of years, but you don't have to have an 8,200-year-old bristlecone pine tree alive today to validly determine that sort of date. It is easy to correlate the inner rings of a younger living tree with the outer rings of an older dead tree. The correlation is possible because, in the Southwest region of the United States, the widths of tree rings vary from year to year with the rainfall, and trees all over the Southwest have the same pattern of variations.
When experts compare the tree-ring dates with the C-14 dates, they find that radiocarbon ages before 1000 BC are really too young—not too old as Cook maintains. For example, pieces of wood that date at about 6200 BC by tree-ring counts date at only 5400 BC by regular C-14 dating and 3900 BC by Cook's creationist revision of C-14 dating (as we see in the article, "Dating, Relative and Absolute," in the Encyclopaedia Britannica). So, despite creationist claims, C-14 before three thousand years ago was decaying faster than it was being formed and C-14 dating errs on the side of making objects from before 1000 BC look too young, not too old.

Question: But don't trees sometimes produce more than one growth ring per year? Wouldn't that spoil the tree-ring count?
Answer: If anything, the tree-ring sequence suffers far more from missing rings than from double rings. This means that the tree-ring dates would be slightly too young, not too old.
Of course, some species of tree tend to produce two or more growth rings per year. But other species produce scarcely any extra rings. Most of the tree-ring sequence is based on the bristlecone pine. This tree rarely produces even a trace of an extra ring; on the contrary, a typical bristlecone pine has up to 5 percent of its rings missing. Concerning the sequence of rings derived from the bristlecone pine, Ferguson says: "In certain species of conifers, especially those at lower elevations or in southern latitudes, one season's growth increment may be composed of two or more flushes of growth, each of which may strongly resemble an annual ring. Such multiple growth rings are extremely rare in bristlecone pines, however, and they are especially infrequent at the elevation and latitude (37' 20' N) of the sites being studied. In the growth-ring analyses of approximately one thousand trees in the White Mountains, we have, in fact, found no more than three or four occurrences of even incipient multiple growth layers." (p. 840)
In years of severe drought, a bristlecone pine may fail to grow a complete ring all the way around its perimeter; we may find the ring if we bore into the tree from one angle, but not from another. Hence at least some of the missing rings can be found. Even so, the missing rings are a far more serious problem than any double rings.
Other species of trees corroborate the work that Ferguson did with bristlecone pines. Before his work, the tree-ring sequence of the sequoias had been worked out back to 1250 BC. The archaeological ring sequence had been worked out back to 59 BC. The limber pine sequence had been worked out back to 25 BC. The radiocarbon dates and tree-ring dates of these other trees agree with those Ferguson got from the bristlecone pine. But even if he had had no other trees with which to work except the bristlecone pines, that evidence alone would have allowed him to determine the tree-ring chronology back to 6200 BC. (See Renfrew for more details.)
So, creationists who complain about double rings in their attempts to disprove C-14 dating are actually grasping at straws. If the Flood of Noah occurred around 3000 BC, as some creationists claim, then all the bristlecone pines would have to be less than five thousand years old. This would mean that eighty-two hundred years worth of tree rings had to form in five thousand years, which would mean that one-third of all the bristlecone pine rings would have to be extra rings. Creationists are forced into accepting such outlandish conclusions as these in order to jam the facts of nature into the time frame upon which their "scientific" creation model is based.

Question: Creationist Thomas G. Barnes has claimed that the earth's magnetic field is decaying exponentially with a half-life of fourteen hundred years. Not only does he consider this proof that the earth can be no older than ten thousand years but he also points out that a greater magnetic strength in the past would reduce C-14 dates. Now if the magnetic field several thousand years ago was indeed many times stronger than it is today, there would have been less cosmic radiation entering the atmosphere back then and less C-14 would have been produced. Therefore, any C-14 dates taken from objects of that time period would be too high. How do you answer him?
Answer: Like Cook, Barnes looks at only part of the evidence. What he ignores is the great body of archaeological and geological data showing that the strength of the magnetic field has been fluctuating up and down for thousands of years and that it has reversed polarity many times in the geological past. So, when Barnes extrapolates ten thousand years into the past, he concludes that the magnetic field was nineteen times stronger in 4000 BC than it is today, when, actually, it was only half as intense then as now. This means that radiocarbon ages of objects from that time period will be too young, just as we saw from the bristlecone pine evidence.

Question: But how does one know that the magnetic field has fluctuated and reversed polarity? Aren't these just excuses scientists give in order to neutralize Barnes's claims?
Answer: The evidence for fluctuations and reversals of the magnetic field is quite solid. V. Bucha, a Czech geophysicist, has used archaeological artifacts made of baked clay to determine the strength of the earth's magnetic field when they were manufactured. He found that the earth's magnetic field was 1.5 times as strong as today around 1 AD, 1.6 times as strong around 400 BC, 0.8 times as strong around 2000 BC, and only 0.5 times as strong around 4000 BC. (See Bailey, Renfrew, and Encyclopedia Britannica for details.) In other words, it rose in intensity from 0.5 times its present value in 4000 BC to a peak of 1.6 times its present value in 400 BC, and it has been slowly declining since then. Even before the bristlecone pine calibration of C-14 dating was worked out by Ferguson, Bucha predicted that this change in the magnetic field would make radiocarbon dates too young.
"This idea [that the fluctuating magnetic field affects influx of cosmic rays, which in turn affects C-14 formation rates] has been taken up by the Czech geophysicist, V. Bucha, who has been able to determine, using samples of baked clay from archeological sites, what the intensity of the earth's magnetic field was at the time in question. Even before the tree-ring calibration data were available to them, he and the archeologist, Evzen Neustupny, were able to suggest how much this would affect the radiocarbon dates." (Renfrew, p. 76)
Not only that, but his predictions were confirmed in detail:
"There is a good correlation between the strength of the earth's magnetic field (as determined by Bucha) and the deviation of the atmospheric radiocarbon concentration from its normal value (as indicated by the tree-ring radiocarbon work)." (Renfrew, p. 76)
So, once we know all the magnetic data, we see that it really supports the tree-ring calibration of C-14 dating, rather than the conclusions of Cook and Barnes.
As for the question of polarity reversals, plate tectonics can teach us much. It is a fact that new oceanic crust continually forms at the mid-oceanic ridges and spreads away from those ridges in opposite directions. When lava at the ridges hardens, it keeps a trace of the magnetism of the earth's magnetic field. Therefore, every time the magnetic field reverses itself, bands of paleomagnetism of reversed polarity show up on the ocean floor alternated with bands of normal polarity. These bands are thousands of kilometers long, they vary in width, they lie parallel, and the bands on either side of any given ridge form mirror images of each other. Thus it can be demonstrated that the magnetic field of the earth has reversed itself dozens of times throughout earth history.
Barnes, writing in 1973, ought to have known better than to quote the gropings and guesses of authors of the early sixties in an effort to debunk magnetic reversals. Before plate tectonics and continental drift became established in the mid-sixties, the known evidence for magnetic reversals was rather scanty, and geophysicists often tried to invent ingenious mechanisms with which to account for this evidence rather than believe in magnetic reversals. However, by 1973, sea floor spreading and magnetic reversals had been documented to the satisfaction of almost the entire scientific community. Yet, instead of seriously attempting to rebut them with up-to-date evidence, Barnes merely quoted the old guesses of authors who wrote before the facts were known. But, in spite of Barnes, paleomagnetism on the sea floor conclusively proves that the magnetic field of the earth oscillates in waves and even reverses itself on occasion. It has not been decaying exponentially as Barnes maintains.

Question: Does outside archaeological evidence confirm theC-14 dating method?
Answer: Yes. When we know the age of a sample through archaeology or historical sources, the C-14 method (as corrected by bristlecone pines) agrees with the age within the known margin of error. For instance, Egyptian artifacts can be dated both historically and by radiocarbon, and the results agree. At first, archaeologists used to complain that the C-14 method must be wrong, because it conflicted with well-established archaeological dates; but, as Renfrew has detailed, the archaeological dates were often based on false assumptions. One such assumption was that the megalith builders of western Europe learned the idea of megaliths from the Near-Eastern civilizations. As a result, archaeologists believed that the Western megalith-building cultures had to be younger than the Near Eastern civilizations. Many archaeologists were skeptical when Ferguson's calibration with bristlecone pines was first published, because, according to his method, radiocarbon dates of the Western megaliths showed them to be much older than their Near-Eastern counterparts. However, as Renfrew demonstrated, the similarities between these Eastern and Western cultures are so superficial that the megalith builders of western Europe invented the idea of megaliths independently of the Near East. So, in the end, external evidence reconciles with and often confirms even controversial C-14 dates.
One of the most striking examples of different dating methods confirming each other is Stonehenge. C-14 dates show that Stonehenge was gradually built over the period from 1900 BC to 1500 BC, long before the Druids, who claimed Stonehenge as their creation, came to England. Astronomer Gerald S. Hawkins calculated with a computer what the heavens were like back in the second millennium BC, accounting for the precession of the equinoxes, and found that Stonehenge had many significant alignments with various extreme positions of the sun and moon (for example, the hellstone marked the point where the sun rose on the first day of summer). Stonehenge fits the heavens as they were almost four thousand years ago, not as they are today, thereby cross-verifying the C-14 dates.

Question: What specifically does C-14 dating show that creates problems for the creation model?
Answer: C-14 dates show that the last glaciation started to subside around twenty thousand years ago. But the young-earth creationists at ICR and elsewhere insist that, if an ice age occurred, it must have come and gone far less than ten thousand years ago, sometime after Noah's flood. Therefore, the only way creationists can hang on to their chronology is to poke all the holes they can into radiocarbon dating. However, as we have seen, it has survived their most ardent attacks.

Bailey, Lloyd R. 1978. Where Is Noah's Ark? Nashville, TN: Abington Press.

Barnes, Thomas G. 1973. Origin and Destiny of the Earth's Magnetic Field. San Diego: Creation-Life Publishers.

Cook, Melvin A. 1966. Prehistory and Earth Models. London: Max Parrish and Co., Ltd.

"Dating, Relative and Absolute." Encyclopaedia Britannica: Macropaedia, Vol. 5. 1974.
"Earth, Magnetic Field of." Encyclopaedia Britannica: Macropaedia, Vol. 5. 1974.

Fergusson, C. W. 1968. "Bristlecone Pine: Science and Aesthetics." Science 159:839-846.

Hawkins, Gerald S. 1965. Stonehenge Decoded. New York: Doubleday & Co.

Hurley, Patrick M. 1959. How Old Is the Earth? New York: Doubleday & Co.

Kieth, M. C., and Anderson, G. M. August 16, 1963. "Radiocarbon Dating: Fictitious
Results with Mollusk Shells." Science 141:634ff.

Kofahl, Robert E. 1977. The Handy Dandy Evolution Refuter. San Diego: Beta Books.

Morris, Henry M. (ed.) 1974. Scientific Creationism. San Diego: Creation-Life Publishers.

Renfrew, Colin. 1973. Before Civilization. New York: Alfred Knopf.

Slusher, Harold S. 1973. Critique of Radiometric Dating. San Diego: Creation-Life Publishers.

Stearns, Colin W., Carroll, Robert L., and Clark, Thomas H. 1979. Geological Evolution of North America, 3rd Edition. New York: John Wiley &


Criticisms of Dendrochronology

* "Santorini tree rings support the traditional dating of the volcanic eruption" (2014-03-06, Swiss Federal Institute for Forest, Snow and Landscape Research WSL) [], summary: Will the dating of the volcanic eruption of Santorini remain an unsolved mystery? The question whether this natural disaster occurred 3,500 or 3,600 years ago is of great historiographical importance and has indeed at times been the subject of heated discussion among experts. After investigating tree rings, scientists have concluded that the volcano erupted in the 16th century BC, rather than any earlier than that.

* "Eastern Europe: Tree rings reveal climate variability and human history" (2013-01-14, Swiss Federal Institute for Forest, Snow and Landscape Research WSL) [], summary:
A total of 545 precisely dated tree-ring width samples, both from living trees and from larch wood taken from historical buildings in the northern Carpathian arc of Slovakia, were used to reconstruct May-June temperatures yearly back to 1040 AD. The tree-ring data from the Tatra Mountains best reflects the climate history of Eastern Europe, with a geographical focus on the Baltic.


Fossilisation / Rapid Petrifaction

* " 'Petrified' Objects in Two Weeks!" []:
Description & Explanation:
These "Petrified" objects took about two weeks to complete. Natural hot spring water (not any spring will do), with an extremely high mineral content, was used to spray these items. The chemistry of the water is completely natural and comes out of the ground at about 72 degrees Celsius. The water is high in carbonates and other residual minerals. The red-orange colouring of the objects is due to the high iron content of the water. The red-orange colouration is deposited during the drying phase. The iron in the water reacts with the oxygen in the air to form a hematite-limonite layer on the outside.
The roses are covered in an aragonite layer.  They are neither permineralized nor petrified (If one wants to get technical).  Most people, without a geology background, however, would just call them "petrified".  They are, however, pretty neat.  They show "rock" does not take a long time to form; "rock" only takes the right chemical and physical conditions to form.
Technically, the "petrified" teddy bears are partially "permineralized".  Many dinosaur bones found in Alberta, Montana, and Saskatchewan are also only partially permineralized (like the teddy bears).  Minerals, in the water, permeate the open structure of the teddy bears, causing the minerals to precipitate within the structure. The "Rock" deposit, in this case, is Aragonite. This is exactly the same type of process that formed most of the dinosaur bone fossils here in Alberta, Montana, and many other localities (The process of permineralization). The dinosaur bones would have stood in water, or in sediment with water percolating through it.  The water carried minerals in solution into the bone which then crystallized within the bone spaces.  As has been pointed out by dinosaur experts, most fossilized dinosaur bone still has much of the original bone present - it has just been infilled with minerals. So, technically, dinosaur bones have not been "turned to stone"; they have been "infilled with stone".  Dr. Philip Currie, Formerly from the Royal Tyrell Museum of Paleontology in Alberta, has said that modern bones that fall into mineral springs can permineralize in a few weeks.   Does it really take thousands or millions of years for fossilization or petrification to occur. Provably not! Though this is not really even a scientific issue anymore, many people still believe that these types of processes must take thousands and millions of years. They, therefore, have a difficult time believing what most of the early geologists believed, that the earth was young, and most of the fossils formed as a result of Noah's flood (only thousands of years ago).
Besides demonstrating that fossilization says nothing about millions of years, these objects are pretty neat in-and-of themselves.
Close-up of a "Petrified" Teddy Bear

Close-up of "Petrified" Paper Rose

* "This is a fossil tree travelling through millions of years of strata" []

* "40 Million year old Cowboy boot found!" []: Everyone has heard the story. "We know absolutely for certain, it takes millions and millions of years for fossils to petrify." It's so obvious that no proof is necessary and of course no witnesses verify. The claim is just repeated over and over. So we hear, "Everybody knows that." Oh yea? How old do you think this boot could be? Millions and millions of years old? I suppose it could be made from T. Rex skin. Do you really think so? The rubber-soled boot with petrified cowboy leg, bones and all was found in a dry creek bed near the West Texas town of Iraan, about 1980 by Mr. Jerry Stone, an employee of Corvette oil company. The boot was hand made by the M. L. Leddy boot company of San Angelo, Texas which began manufacturing boots in 1936. Gayland Leddy, nephew of the founder, grew up in the boot business and now manages Boot Town in Garland, Texas. He recognized the "number 10 stitch pattern" used by his uncle?s company and concluded that the boot was made in the early 1950's. Only the contents of the boot are fossilized, not the boot itself, demonstrating that some materials fossilize more readily than others. The bones of the partial leg and foot within the boot were revealed by an elaborate set of C.T. Scans performed at Harris Methodist Hospital in Bedford, Texas on July 24, 1997. The Radiologic Technician was Evelyn Americus, AART. A complete set of these scans remains with the boot at the Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, Texas. The fact that some materials can fossilize rapidly under certain circumstances is well known by experts in the field and is not really a scientific issue. However, the general public has been misled in order to facilitate the impression of great ages. The dramatic example of the "Limestone Cowboy" immediately communicates the truth of the matter. Fossilization proves nothing about long periods of time.
So what do you think? Could it be possible that those dino fossils aren't actually as old as you've been told they are?
* "The Limestone Cowboy" ( [], photos [] [] [], accompanied by the "Fossilized Hat of Rock" []
* " 'The Limestone Cowboy'  An alleged fossilized leg in a cowboy boot" (2006, by Glen J. Kuban)  []

* "FAST and YOUNG! Evidence of Young Earth Evidence" (by Anti-Creationist, William D. Stansfield, Prof. Biological Sciences, California Polytechnic State University, via []:
Note: Stansfield is an evolutionist. He believes the earth is billions of years old. But he is honest enough to concede that many scientific facts do give evidence of a young earth.

Water From Volcanoes -
"It has been estimated that seventy volcanoes the size of Mexico's Paricutin producing 0.001 cubic mile of water per year for 4.5 billion years of earth's history could account for the 315 cubic miles of water in the oceans today. There are now approximately 600 active volcanoes and about 10,000 dormant ones. Six hundred volcanoes comparable to Paricutin could account for the present oceans in approximately 0.5 billion years."

Uranium In the Oceans -
"Uranium salts presently appear to be accumulating in the oceans at about 100 times the rate of their loss. It is estimated that 60,000,000,000 grams of uranium is added to the oceans annually. Under uniformitarian rules, the total concentration of uranium salts of the oceans (estimated at less than 1E+17 grams) could be accumulated in less than one million years.

Helium In the Atmosphere -
"The atmospheric content of helium-4 (the most abundant isotope of helium) has accumulated from the radioactive decay of uranium and thorium in the earth's crust and oceans, from nuclear reactions caused by cosmic rays, and from the sun. If the present rate of accumulation has been constant throughout four billion years of the earth's history, there should be thirty times as much helium in our present atmosphere as is presently there."

Meteoric Dust In Strata -
"One estimate of meteoric dust settling to earth places it at 14.3 million tons annually. If this rate has been constant throughout five billion years of geologic history, one might expect over fifty feet of meteorite dust to have settled all over the surface of the earth. ... The average meteorite contains about three hundred times more nickel than the average earth rock."

Meteorites In Strata -
"No meteorites have been found in the geological column."

Lava In The Crust -
"It has been estimated that four volcanoes spewing lava at the rate observed for Paricutin and continuing for five billion years could almost account for the volume of the continental crusts. The Colombian plateau of northwestern United States (covering 200,000 square miles) was produced by a gigantic lava flow several thousands of feet deep. The Canadian shield and other extensive lava flows indicate that volcanic activity has indeed followed an accelerated tempo in the past. The fact that only a small percentage of crystal rocks are recognizably lavas...."

Pressure In Oil Reservoirs -
"Some geologist find it difficult to understand how the great pressures found in some oil wells could be retained over millions of years."

Human Population Dynamics -
"If humanity is really about 2.5 million years old (as claimed by Dr. Louis Leakey), creationist calculate from conservative population estimates (2.4 children per family, average generation and life span of forty-three years) that the world population would have grown from a single family to 10 to the 2700th power of people over one million years. The present world population is about 2x10 to the 9th power, an infinitesimal part of the 10 to the 2700th power."

Radiocarbon In Atmosphere -
"It now appears that the C14 decay rate in living organisms is about 30 per cent less than its production rate in the upper atmosphere. Since the amount of C14 is now increasing in the atmosphere, it may be assumed that the quantity of C14 was even lower in the past than at the present. This condition would lead to abnormally low C14/C12 ratios for the older fossils. Such a fossil would be interpreted as being much older than it really is. ... Creationists argue that since C14 has not yet reached its equilibrium rate, the age of the atmosphere must be less than 20,000 years old."

Dr. Stansfield's "Answer":
"By this methodology, creationists stand guilty of the "crime" they ascribe to evolutionists, namely uniformitarianism. All the above methods for dating the age of the earth, its various strata, and its fossils are questionable, because the rates are likely to have fluctuated widely over earth history. A method that appears to have much greater reliability for determining absolute ages of rocks is that of radiometric dating."

But He Acknowledges:
"If we assume that (1) a rock contained no Pb206 when it was formed, (2) all Pb206 now in the rock was produced by radioactive decay of U238, (3) the rate of decay has been constant, (4) there has been no differential leaching by water of either element, and (5) no U238 has been transported into the rock from another source, then we might expect our estimate of age to be fairly accurate. Each assumption is a potential variable, the magnitude of which can seldom be ascertained. In cases where the daughter product is a gas, as in the decay of potassium (K40) to the gas argon (Ar 40) it is essential that none of the gas escapes from the rock over long periods of time.

Stanfield's Conclusion:
It is obvious that radiometric techniques may not be the absolute dating methods that they are claimed to be. Age estimates on a given geological stratum by different radiometric methods are often quite different (sometimes by hundreds of millions of years). There is no absolutely reliable long-term radiological 'clock."' SCIENCE OF EVOLUTION, pp. 80-84.

* Iron Hammer of the Lower Cretaceous []
* "The London Artifact" (retrieved from creationevidenceorg) [], photo caption: The wood handle is partially coalifed with quartz and calcite crystalline inclusions. Tests performed at Battelle Laboratory document the hammer's unusual metallurgy, 96% iron, 2.6% chlorine and .74% sulfur (no carbon). Density test indicate casting of exceptional quality. A unique coating of FeO, which does not readily form under present atmospheric conditions, appears to inhibit rusting. Found in a formation famous for its dinosaurs, supposed to be 140 million years old (lower cretaceous).

Miners in South Africa have been digging up mysterious metal spheres. Origin unknown, these spheres are etched with three parallel grooves running around the equator. Two types of spheres have been found: one is composed of a solid bluish metal with flecks of white; the other is hollowed out and filled with a spongy white substance. The kicker is that the rock in which they where found is Precambrian - and dated to 2.8 BILLION years old! Who made them and for what purpose is unknown.

* "Iron Pot Embedded in a Large Lump of Coal" []

* "Stones that grow by themselves" (2009-06, [].
Trovants, the growing stones of Romania. The stones grow when it rains from the process of concretion.

* "The Crystal Maiden of the Actun Tunichil Muknal Cave; Belize cave containing the sparkling, calcite covered skeletons of Mayan children, sacrificed to the rain god" (retrieved 2017-02-01, []
The skeleton of an eighteen-year-old girl lies legs akimbo on the cave floor, two of her vertebrae crushed. She is known as the Crystal Maiden, and after a thousand years, she has newfound celebrity


* "Systematic excavation of dinosaur fossils launched in NE China" (2017-05-27, []

* "What lies beneath: Melting Siberian permafrost has revealed some terrifying creatures" (2018-01-01, [] [begin excerpt]:
The Siberian unicorn – long believed to have died out 350,000 years ago – was actually still alive as recently as 29,000 years ago, according to the analysis of a well-preserved skull found in the Pavlodar region of Kazakhstan.
Unicorn enthusiasts will be disappointed to learn that the extinct creature – also known as Elasmotherium sibiricum – had more in common with rhinos or woolly mammoths than fictional unicorns, however.
It is believed to have been up to 2 meters (6.6ft) tall, and 4.5 meters (14.7ft) in length. It weighed in at a whopping four tons, and was equipped with a large horn in the middle of its forehead.
Researchers at Tomsk State University managed to date the furry beast to around 29,000 years ago, thanks to radiocarbon-dating techniques. They believe the specimen discovered in Kazakhstan was a male but have yet to determine the cause of its death.
"Most likely, the south of Western Siberia was a refugium, where this rhino persevered the longest in comparison with the rest of its range," said Andrey Shpanski, one of the researchers, as cited by Science Alert [].
"There is another possibility that it could migrate and dwell for a while in the more southern areas." [end excerpt]
- Photo caption: Fossil of Elasmotherium -- taken the photo at Natural History Museum, London

Monday, January 1, 2001

"Ancient Rome"

Being a catalogue of artifacts, descriptions, and speculations describing continental Europe before the "Heinsohn Horizon" (1000 to 1100 years BM).

If there were a book that codified history for the Roman Empire, it would be the "Annales ecclesiastici a Christo nato ad annum 1198 (Ecclesiastical annals from Christ's nativity to 1198)", by Caesar Baronius. It is interesting to note that [] [begin excerpt]: The first volume dealt with Gentile prophets, among whom were Hermes Trismegistus, the supposed author of the Corpus Hermeticum, and the Sibylline Oracles of Rome. Some, it was claimed, had foreseen Christ's birth. This was disputed by post-Protestant Reformation scholars, including Isaac Casaubon in his De rebus sacris et ecclesiasticis exercitationes, XVI. [end excerpt]

* "The Making of Medieval Forgeries: False Documents in Fifteenth-century England" book
(by Alfred Hiatt) [] [pages 162 to 163]:
Valla, in the preface to the first book of his Elegantiae, wrote that "Qui ... libertate spoliari sc existimabant, net fortassc iniuria" (those who ... thought that they had been stripped of their liberty—and perhaps not unjustly), "Amisimus Romam. amisimus regnum, amisimus dominatum" (We lost Rome, we lost the kingdom and dominion), "'per hunt splendidorem dominatum in magna adhuc orbis pane regna-mus Ibi nanquc Romanum imperium est. ubicunque Romana lingua dominatur" (in this more splendid [i.e. linguistic] dominion we reign to this day in a great part of the world ... [f]or Roman imperium is wherever the Roman language rules)."

* "Mapping Ancient Ruins" (2013-12-24, [] [begin excerpt]:
More than a hint of Alberti’s Renaissance resuscitation and incarnation of the ancient city in erudite terms was present in the view that Michel de Montaigne in later took in 1581 pf “studying Rome,” whose plant was at that point still two-thirds uninhabited, by climbing the Janiculum to “contemplate the configuration of all the parts of Rome, which may not be seen so clearly from any other place,” lamented “that one saw nothing of Rome but the sky under which it had stood and the plan of its site” with knowledge of the city only “as an abstract and contemplative knowledge of which there was nothing perceptible to the senses” since the world, “hostile to its long domination, . . . [had] broken and shattered all the parts of this wonderful body and, since even quite dead overthrown and disfigured, the world was still terrified by it, had buried its very ruins”–and lamented the lesser nature of “the buildings of this bastard Rome which they were now attaching to these ancient ruins.”  These sort of maps preserved a city from its own decay, and created a powerful structure and physical design for mediating the past, as much as mark the situation of the city as a nexus of itineraries–such as the “Peutinger” chart (named for the Renaissance humanist who discovered it) depicted the city at the node of ancient Roman roads. [end excerpt]

* "Mapping the Presence of Rome’s Pasts" (2016-04-20, []


More about "Ancient Rome" and contemporary nations [], []
Rome was founded on April 21, 753 BC by Romulus on the Palatino hill. Gunnar Heinsohn points out that coins found in strata attributed to the 950s AD (1050 years BM) carry the longcount attributed to about 360 AD, by which point one can count the years between 750 BC to 350 AD at around 800 years, so that Rome may have been founded at around 2000 years BM.
Another "European" city continuously inhabited for 2000 years includes in the Dagestan region, see more at "Ancient Russian City of Derbent Celebrates 2,000th Birthday" (2015-09-21, []


* "Ancient underground city in İzmit excites archaeology world; A new excavation process will start in April in northwestern Turkey, where officials believe a huge ancient palace lies underground" (2016-03-04, [] [begin excerpt]: Gülşah, who is also the head of the Nicomedia Academy Association, said İzmit was named Nicomedia in the ancient era and was the capital of Rome from 284 to 330. The palace there was built by Diocletian. [end excerpt]

* "Mithras, Jesus and Josephus Flavius" (by Flavio Barbiero) [], also by the same author "A precise chronology of Exodus" []

Map info at [], adapted from "Sulle magnificenze di Roma Antica e Moderna", Book 1 - "Le Porte e le Mura di Roma (The Gates and the Walls of Rome)" by Giuseppe Vasi []. The map link writes, "The walls around the Vatican were initially built in the IXth century and they were almost entirely rebuilt in the second half of the XVIth century by Pope Paul III and by Pope Pius IV; they included Castel Sant'Angelo. In the first half of the XVIIth century Pope Urban VIII built walls on Monte Gianicolo and redesigned the walls of Aurelian in Trastevere."

Map showing a reconstruction of Ancient Rome by Pirro Ligorio (1561) []:
Extracts: [], [], [], [], Tiber Island []
More about the author []

* Folio 18 from Bibliotheque Nationale, MS It. 81, Allegorical map of the City of Rome, showing a personification of Rome as a widow during the Avignon Papacy []. Scanned from Four Gothic Kings, ed. Elizabeth Hallam. [].

Rome is prone to flooding.
* Photo caption ( []: (above) S. Lorenzo in Miranda: XVIIIth century mass pricelist (on the right the coat of arms of Pope Martin V); (below) S. Maria sopra Minerva tablet recording the 1422 flood of the Tiber (in the year 1422 on the day of St. Andrew the water of the Tiber reached the top of this tablet: placed by Pope Martin V in the VIth year of his pontificate)


The "Tabula Peutingeriana" [] is a road map of the Roman Empire made by a monk in Colmar c.1250 AD (750 BM). Facsimile edition prepared 1887 [], full map [], with a restored (though speculative) addition showing the northwestern realm and isles.

* "Explore Peutinger's Roman Map" ( [] [begin excerpt]:
The so-called "Peutinger Map" is the only Roman world map known to have survived antiquity. Preserved in a single, medieval copy now housed in the Austrian National Library in Vienna, the map stretches from Britain in the west to India in the east, covering a series of 11 parchment rectangles totaling over 6.7 meters (22 feet) in length. [end excerpt]
Introduction to the Exhibition [].

* "Complete Tabula Peutingeriana -a Roman Road Map compared with a modern map" ( [] [begin excerpt]:
A Very Ancient Document -
Drawn in 1265 by a monk from Colmar and made up of 11 parchments scrolls measuring approximately 34 cm high by 6,74 m. long when assembled, this document was discovered in 1494 by Konrad Meissel, alias Celtes, and given in 1507 to an Antiquarian of Augsburg, Konrad Peutinger.
This document appears to be a planisphere describing the world as it was known in Antiquity. Indeed several disappeared localities, like Pompeii or Herculanum, are indicated and other places, such as Hatra in Iraq or Tegea in Greece, bear their Roman names which were lost during the Middle Ages. In addition, several notes refer to ancient ideas, such as a wide river "flowing" under the Sahara, or Alexander's conquests. Moreover, the localities are connected by roads with distances marked in Roman numerals indicating the miles (1480 m.) or, west of Lyon, the Gallic leagues (2220 m.)
Large cities are represented by thumbnails of variable size and a special importance is given to the thermal cities. The metropolises of this map are Rome [], Constantinople [] and Antiochia []. Immediately below the metropolises in size are Nicomedia (Izmit) [], Nicaea (Iznik), Aquileia [] and Ravenna []. Ancyra (Ankara) [] seems to be a town of the same size as Ravenna but its name was not written. The same applies to Alexandria [].
Moreover, the map seems to indicate some maritime or river ways without clearly marking their departure or arrival destinations. For instance a ferry could exist in the Southern Peloponnese, with a destination of either Crete or Cyrenaica, and Ostia, the harbour of Rome, is positioned exactly opposite Carthage []. There is also a reference to a riverway between Ostiglia and the Adriatic Sea or Ravenna. A route by ferry
This leads one to the conclusion that the Peutingerian Table, is the result of successive copies and overprints carried out at various times from one or several ancient originals. The oldest information probably goes back to before 79 AD since Pompeii is indicated. Other temporal indications can be drawn from Jerusalem which is named Aelia Capitolina, name given in 132 AD and from Constantinople, the name commonly used since the 5th century for Byzantium. [end excerpt]


* "World's oldest computer is more ancient than first thought: Antikythera Mechanism was created in 205 BC, study claims" (2014-11-28, []


* "The Cutthroat Politics of Public Health in Ancient Rome" (2016-04-22, []


* "Sculpture of ancient Rome: The shock of the old" (2013-05-02, [] [begin excerpt]:
It must have been bliss to be an archaeologist during the 18th Century, when the Roman towns of Pompeii and Herculaneum were rediscovered. Take the Villa of the Papyri outside Herculaneum: 85 sculptures were uncovered at this site alone between 1750 and 1761.
But it could be awkward too. Imagine how the excavators must have felt when they unearthed the most infamous of these sculptures in the presence of the king of Naples and Sicily on a spring day in 1752. Carved from a single block of Italian marble, it showed the wild god Pan making love to a goat. With his right hand, Pan grabs the nanny goat’s tufted beard, yanking forward her head so that he can stare deep into her eyes. The king was not amused.
Unlike most of the 18th-Century finds from Herculaneum and Pompeii, the sculpture was hidden away, available to view only with the monarch’s permission. Yet, from the moment of its discovery, the statue generated curiosity as well as horror. It quickly became a fashionable sight for Englishmen gallivanting around Europe on the Grand Tour. The 18th-Century English sculptor Joseph Nollekens produced a terracotta replica from memory – though his bug-eyed animal is far more surprised by Pan’s attentions than the Roman goat, which seems almost complicit.
Without realising, Nollekens had stressed the scene’s undertones of bestiality and rape – even though the original may have appeared much less violent to the Romans. Different cultures view the same things in different ways. Art that we consider shockingly erotic or violent was commonplace in the Roman world. [...]
Today it is tempting to view the sculpture as a piece of vile erotica – but I’m not so sure. The Villa of the Papyri also contained a library full of hundreds of scrolls, suggesting that the man who owned the sculpture was sophisticated and well-read. [...]
These sculptures aren’t lewd, but they are extraordinarily violent. While we can appreciate the way in which the sculptor arranged a chaotic subject into coherent forms, they still seem like strange choices for garden ornaments, by our standards. So does a nearby marble statuette of a pot-bellied Hercules, clearly the worse for wear following a drunken banquet, about to take a pee. [...]
It is a similar story with the famous Laocoon, that tangle of thrusting limbs, lightning-quick sea serpents and agonised expressions that has haunted the Western imagination ever since it was discovered in Rome and deposited in the Belvedere courtyard of the Vatican by Pope Julius II in 1506. This moving marble sculpture of the Trojan priest Laocoon and his two sons struggling to escape from the coils of their fate, forever frozen in the throes of anguish, has inspired countless artists and writers, from Michelangelo to Dickens.
It puzzles me that the Romans, who valued integrity and gravitas, were so obsessed with gore. After all, their gladiatorial games and spectacles in the arena involving wild beasts and condemned criminals were nothing but a form of ritualised human sacrifice. Ancient Rome was a curious mixture of civilisation and barbarism.
As the sculpture of Pan and the goat attests, sex pervaded Roman culture as much as violence. A year and a half ago, I visited Pompeii, while filming a BBC documentary series called Treasures of Ancient Rome. While it wasn’t surprising that one of the town’s brothels was painted with sexually explicit frescoes, I did find it bizarre that so many buildings were decorated with plaques depicting erect phalluses.
It used to be thought that these pointed the way to one of Pompeii’s many brothels: according to some estimates there were as many as 35 in a town with a population of around 12,000 people. But most scholars now believe that the phallus functioned as a kind of amulet, warding off evil forces.
This would explain its ubiquity in contexts that we might find surprising: in the exhibition at the British Museum, for instance, there is a curious object known as a ‘tintinnabulum’, or wind chime, consisting of a winged phallus (with lion feet, as well as its own phallus and phallus tail), from which five bells have been suspended. Although it was discovered in Pompeii, a similar object would not have looked out of place in the Villa of the Papyri in Herculaneum, tinkling from the boughs as visitors looked at the sculpture of Pan having sex with a goat. [end excerpt]
Photo captions:
- Phallic cymbal []: The tintinnabulum or wind chime is a phallus with wings, lion’s feet and hanging bells. (Soprintendenza Speciale per i Beni Archeologici di Napoli e Pompei)
- Urine trouble now... []: This AD 1-79 marble statuette depicts an undignified Hercules relieving himself while under the influence of Bacchus, the wild god of wine.


* "The Exotic Animal Traffickers of Ancient Rome; Thousands of bears, panthers, leopards, lions, and elephants were killed in the Colosseum—but how did they get there in the first place?" (2016-03-30, []


* "Ancient artistry uncovered: Exquisite 1,700-yo Roman mosaic unveiled in Israel" (2015-11-17, []


Roman Britannia (Great Britain)
* "Fake map of Roman Britain" ( [] [], full image []:

* It's amazing that the art in the following photo resembles early Christian Slavic art. Photo caption ( []: A mosaic floor. It's at Lullingstone Roman villa in Kent.

* Photo caption ( []: Remains of the theatre at St Albans (called Verulamium by the Romans). It was Roman Britain’s only theatre with a stage. 2,000 people could sit inside.

* "Flooding find: First UK Roman road discovered in 150 yrs" (2016-01-03, []

* Ancient Conduit in Westcheap, built during the rule of Rome, image from "James Brindley and the Early Engineers" []

* "Rental of the lands of Worcester Cathedral Priory" []: The British Library possesses the largest collection of medieval cartularies in Britain. The newest addition to our holdings is a rental that was made for Worcester Cathedral Priory. Dating to 1240 (with some later additions), it contains records of the possessions of this major monastic foundation and the revenues to which it was entitled. It formed the exemplar for the ‘Registrum Prioratus’, dating to the early 14th century, which remains at Worcester Cathedral, as Muniments, A.2.

* "Camulodunum (camvlodvnvm)" (retrieved 2016-04-04, [], photo caption: Roman Mosaic found at the Middleborough House, Colchester

Pre-Roman Britannia (?)
* "Ancient Britons mummified their dead like Egyptians" (2015-10-01, []. Despite the sensationalist headline, the process of mummification does not resemble the process used by the KMT (Egyptian) embalmers. Where in stratigraphy do the skeletons belong to? What is the stratigraphy of ancient swamplands? As there are no Roman-style artifacts reported discovered alongside peat-bog mummies, these burials could be from before the advent of the Realm of Roma, and reflect the culture of Pan-Celtica across Europe and Central Asia.

* "Britain's Pompeii: Bronze Age stilt houses found in English quarry" (2016-01-12, UPI Newswire) []

* "A brief history of the ancient Pict Kingdoms of Scotland" (2016-03-30, []
A Pictish warrior holding a human head; nude, body stained and painted with birds, animals and serpents carrying shield and man's head, with large curved sword.
Drawn by John White, 1585-1593,
The following text is taken from K. Sloan, 'A New World: England's First View of America' (London, BM Publications, 2006), pp. 153-55:
Immediately after his engraving of ‘The Marckes of sundrye of the Cheif mene of Virginia’ ('America, pt. I, pl. XXIII), Theodor de Bry published an appendix to his illustrated edition of Harriot’s 'Briefe and true report'. He gave two explanations for the inclusion of these images which he stated he had received from John White, ‘fownd as hy did assured my in a oolld English cronicle, the which I wold well sett to the ende of thees first Figures, for to showe how that the Inhabitants of the great Bretannie haue bin in times past as sauuage as those of Virginia’. In the first ‘trvve picture of one Picte’ (Pl. I) he noted ‘In tymes past the Pictes, habitans of one part of great Bretainne, which is nowe nammed England, wear sauuages, and did paint all their bodye after the maner followinge . . . And when they hath ouercomme some of their ennemis, they did neuer felle to carye a we their heads with them.’ Their women ‘wear noe worser for the warres than the men’.As Joyce Chaplin has commented in Chapter 4, White’s fantastically painted warriors and Harriot’s captions written for them seemed to be indicating that the English should have no fear of the North Carolina Algonquians, since they were much more civilized than the earlier inhabitants of Britain itself. The Indians were partially clothed, not naked, and decoratively tattooed and painted their bodies with patterns resembling gilding on armour or with identifying marks of their ‘Princes’ (similar to a badge, emblem or coat of arms), rather than painting themselves all over as ancient Picts had done. The contemporary English historian John Speed argued that the name Pict meant ‘painted or stained’ and believed that they went naked so as not to cover up their ‘painting and damasking’ which made them look more terrible in war. The Picts took heads as trophies, and they and their neighbours, men and women, bristled with weapons. The phrases ‘Brytish Empire’ and ‘Greate Briteigne’ were beginning to be used with more regularity during this period, with Elizabeth claiming sovereignty over England, France, Ireland and Virginia. There has been a great deal of debate concerning how much the Picts and their neighbours represented by White, Harriot and de Bry were intended to refer to the Scots or to the ‘wild and savage’ Catholic Irish whom the English were currently attempting to evict and subdue in order to plant English settlers on Irish land that Queen Elizabeth claimed to rule. The English had been no less savage themselves in these attempts, with Humphry Gilbert lining the path to his tent with Irish heads and books published with illustrations celebrating similar grisly victories. Andrew Hadfield (p. 175) has noted: ‘It was a commonplace that Ireland was at the same stage of development as England had been when conquered by the Romans, the invaders in each case providing much needed law, order, and civilization.’ If the Picts represented the Scots or drew parallels with the Irish, then history was reassuring, as the English would provide the same civilizing process for the Indians as the Romans had done for them and they would have a much easier time of it, as White’s images of the Indians indicated they were already a civic society with their own organized government, agricultural society and religion.
John White was not the first to depict ancient Picts or Inuit in watercolour in England; Lucas de Heere made drawings of Stonehenge and of ancient Britons when he visited London in 1575 and drew the Inuit brought there by Frobisher the following year. De Heere was part of a circle of Dutch and Flemish Protestant refugees in London in the 1560s and 1570s with a larger circle of correspondents on the continent, which included Ortelius, the publisher Christopher Plantin, the botanist Clusius and many artists – Ketel, Gheeraerts, de Critz, Hoefnagel and Hogenberg. They were all well known to John Dee, Philip Sidney and other members of their circle, including William Camden. Ortelius, in London in 1577 to learn about Frobisher’s voyages, persuaded Camden to write his history of Britain. It was undoubtedly in this milieu in the mid-1570s and on the receipt of a commission to paint a gallery of costumes of different nations that de Heere was inspired to create the two albums of watercolours of people of ancient and modern Britain that are now in the British Library (with a Dutch description) (see fig. 95) and the University Library of Ghent (in French). Both included drawings drawn from life, from prints and possibly from early manuscripts, and both included images of Irish and of ancient Picts, described as ‘les premiers Anglois comme ils alloyent en guerre du tems du Julius Cesar’. The title of the Dutch manuscript in the British Library translates as a ‘Short Description of England, Scotland and Ireland’ and is followed by a ‘Short Description of the English Histories Compiled from the Best of Authors’. The latter may have provided the source for White’s images of the Picts. De Heere’s and White’s Picts are not identical but are similar enough to make one wonder whether they knew each other or at least shared a common source – White’s ‘oolld English cronicle’ (see above), which was probably a fairly explicit description or manuscript illustration in a classical source. Stuart Piggott has argued that the captions for this group of engravings in de Bry’s publication (which may have been written by de Bry, Harriot or White) seem to cite descriptions from two Greek authorities, Herodian (fl. AD 235) and Dio Cassius (AD 160–230), on the Severan campaigns against the Caledonii and Maetae of North Britain in AD 208–9. These texts were available to scholars: John Stow published a Summarie of Englyshe Chronicles in 1565 and William Camden printed them in full in his Britannia of 1586. Herodian mentions the iron torcs, the sword chain is mentioned by Diodorus Siculus, and the narrow oval shield, twisted torcs, nakedness, head-hunting and body painting are all described. Herodian wrote: ‘They paint their bodies with sundry colours, with all kinds of animals represented in them.’
It is also worth noting that the paintings and tattoos on this Pict in particular resemble some of the more elaborate sculpted and gilded decorations on court armour of the period, which employed similar fantastic beasts on shoulders, helmets and breastplates. Engraved by de Bry, 'America', I, Pictes, pl. I:‘The truue picture of one Picte’


Roman Illyria
* Information collected from posts by Mikolaj at [] [begin excerpt]: After Croats under Vojnomir smashed Avars they become „vassal“ of Franks. Vojnomir was Charlemagne ally. Also in Dalmatia we have many early Croatian archaeological site. In one site (Crkvina as I remembered?) we found elite Frankish swords which Croats used. Latin wasnt mainly spoken language in Dalmatia, generally speaking.
There lived Romanized Illyrians as majority. Dalmatia (with Islands), Pannonia were Croatorum in 7th century and are Croatorum in 21th century.  Bosnia also belong to Croatia once. Same as coast to the half Albania. When Croats smashed Avars they become rulers in area. They were warlike Slavs. Unusual but explaindable (Gothic and Irannic influences and their path). Croats smashed Franks more than once, Venetians more than once(google King Branimir and battle of Makarska, battle in which Venetian Doge was killed), Genoese, Arabs more than once, Magyars more than once, Greeks (under Trpimir who was my favourite Croatian king but sadly Croats dont have hi monument-he also smashed Venetians), Mongols. Croats smashed Bulgars in their prime time. When Bulgaria conquered Rašica, Serbs fled to Croatian king Tomislav. Later Croatian King Tomislav smashed Bulgars somewhere in Bosnia. Croats smashed Ottomans as nobody bussiness.
They came in 600 AD century, have had duchies, Kingdom in 10th century. Later they have union with Hungarians. Et cetera. Croats dont have much of Byzantine influence because of Rome. Franks were dying. Byzant was in war with Arabs. Before with Persians, Avars, Slavs  et cetera. Space was open to new force in Mitteleuropa as Germanic people called Croatia.
I saw some Gothic jewlery from Zadar. But, sadly, in Croatia we have small numbers of archaeologcial sites where Goths elite lived. We have in Nikshich, Narona, Skradin and Knin. Those places where Goths elite soldiers were. From there they controled Dalmatia. Goths came in Dalmatia in late 5th century. Croats, according to DAI came in 7th century. Time gap is 150 years. To be excat when we look archaeological data 135 years. In those 135 years, between Goths and Croats, came Avars, cca. 100 years afther Goths. But Avars were not Goths and Croats. They didnt settled. They raided. In and out. Goths stayed in Dalmatia for 60 years and Avars raided Dalmatia for 30-40 years. Only one place in Croatia where Avars settle is in Pannonia. One site. Sadly we cant know did Goths stayed in Dalmatia. Possibly some did. But we have zero evidence for that claim.  Except mine (joke): that Croatian women are more beutifull than average  European women because Goths when coming from Ukraine to Croatia gather all pretty womens. Those genes are now in Croatian women. Goths didnt touch Dalmatia. They repected internal system. In Zadar we didnt find any Goth weapons. But in Nikshich (border to east), Narona (control of naval way), Skardin (naval way which isnt protected with Islands), Knin (crossroads and link of Dalmatia with interior) et cetera, we found weapons. So, sadly Goths didnt stayed.
On another hand, Liburni, Dalmatae, Histri (and others Illyrians) did stayed. They introduced some culture to newcommers-Croats. In old Croatian center Nin,  we have graves of Liburnians and Croats, burried together. Not burn as we found on another side of Drina. Drina was border for about 3500 years between east and west. That was border of Illyricum. Illyrians were west, Thrachians were east. Goths were west, Gepids were east. Generally speaking. Croats bastion of Chatolicism. On another side of Drina we have Orthodoxy.
If you mean on Thomas of Split who called Croats Goths we need to look who say that and for what reason. Thomas was „Latin“ scholar from Dalmatia. So anyone who didnt know Latin was not good enough for him. Slavs in that time have liturgy in Slavic language. Croats came from north. Avars, Huns came from north. But they raid. Goths came but didnt ruined Dalmatia. Same as Croats. We can also discuss was there and Arianism in early Croats. Thomas saw it as heresy. Same as Bogumilism. So he mock them. He called Croats Goths because ot their heresy. Also Croats came from Azov sea, Ukraine, Poland, Bavaria, Czeh, Slovenia. So perhaps Thomas knew that Goths came from Ukraine. Also Croats as Goths ruled Dalmatia because Byzanitine ruler Herclius invited them in 600s AD.
In the end, lets not insult history. Croats were first known Slavic tribe. Croatian chakavian dialect is oldest known Slavic dialect. No offence to women and Italians here but you know how they say in Croatia: „Italian on ship is like women on ship-bad luck!“ Its myth  that Slavs cant sail. Croats sailed to Marocco, England, India et cetera. DAI (Chapter 31) say that WhiteCroatia  is also called „Great“ and is still heathen- it is often attacked by Pech-enegs, Turks and Franks and is able to gather resources inferior to thoseof Dalmatian Croatia, which could muster 60 000 mounted soldiers,100 000 foot soldiers and 180 ships. White Croatia, mean-while, has no ships because it lies thirty days journey from the sea which is called „dark“. Early Croats were rulers of „Sinye more“-old Croatian name for Adriatic sea. [end excerpt]


* "Magic spells found next to 2,000-yr-old Serbian skeletons in ancient Roman city" (2016-08-10, [] [begin excerpt]: The discovery was made in Kostolac in eastern Serbia at the foot of a coal-fired power station where construction was due to take place.
The site was once home to the ancient Roman city Viminacium in the province of Moesia.
Dankovic said the team of archaeologists suspect the scrolls, which are written in Aramaic, are magic as they mention demons “that are connected to the territory of modern-day Syria.” [end excerpt]


* "An Impressive 2,800 Year Old Farm House was Uncovered in Rosh Ha-‘Ayin" (2014-12, [] [begin excerpt]: An impressive farm house, 2,800 years old, which comprised twenty-three rooms, was exposed in recent weeks during archaeological excavations the Israel Antiquities Authority is carrying out in Rosh Ha-‘Ayin before the city is enlarged in an initiative by the Ministry of Construction. According to Amit Shadman, excavation director on behalf of the Israel Antiquities Authority, “The farm, which is extraordinarily well-preserved, extends across an area of 30 × 40 m and was built in the eighth century BCE, the time of the Assyrian conquest. Farm houses during this period served as small settlements of sorts whose inhabitants participated in processing agricultural produce. The numerous wine presses discovered in the vicinity of the settlement indicate the wine industry was the most important branch of agriculture in the region. A large silo, which was used to store grain, shows that the ancient residents were also engaged in growing cereal.”
According to Shadman the building continued to be used during the Persian period (also known as the Time of the Return to Zion) in the sixth century BCE, and in the Hellenistic period as well which began in the country with the arrival of Alexander the Great, one of the greatest military leaders of antiquity. With Alexander’s victory over the Persian army in 333 BCE he embarked upon numerous successful military campaigns. His campaign in Israel did not encounter any special difficulties and the country opened its gates to the great warrior.
Evidence of a Greek presence in the region was uncovered on one of the floors of the building in the form of a rare silver coin bearing the military leader’s name – ΑΛΕΞΑNΔΡΟΥ. One can also discern the image of the god Zeus on that side of the coin, while the head of Heracles appears on its reverse. [end excerpt]
Photo caption: The face of Heracles.

* "They're not secret anymore! The ancient Jewish catacombs in Rome that have been off limits for decades will finally open to the public; The Jewish catacombs open to the general public for the first time on Sunday; Previously only private tours could visit the tunnels beneath a Rome vineyard; Discovered in 1918, the ancient catacombs date back to the second century" (2016-04-30, [], photo caption: Dating back to the period between the second and third centuries they are thought to have remained in use until the fifth century

photo caption: Tourists will have the chance to see artwork and inscriptions in Hebrew, Greek and Latin


* Trajan coin minted in commemoration of the conquest of Parthia [], Armenia and Mesopotamia [].
* A coin of Trajan, found in the Ahinposh Buddhist monastery in Afghanistan, together with coins of Kanishka. []


* Pompeii artifacts and venetian glass [] []


* "Golden discovery: Archaeologists discover astonishing haul 'linked to Alexander the Great' in network of tombs in Bulgaria; Beautifully-preserved treasures found in Bulgarian historical site; Thracian artefacts are more than 2,000 years old; May be linked to Phillip II of Macedon, Alexander the Great's father" (2012-11-12, []
The beauty of ancient Greece - 330-300 BCE Thrace. Photo: Bronze Portrait of Seuthes III found in a stone-lined pit in front of the entrance to his royal tomb in Bulgaria. The Ruler of the most powerful Thracian tribe, the Odris. Unearthed in 2004.


* "British villa fit for an emperor: Experts finally solve puzzle of Roman ruins at Lullingstone" (2010-08-19, [], photo captions:
- High-ranking: A coin featuring the head of Pertinax Publius Helvius after he was made Roman Emperor in AD193

- Luxury: An elaborate mosaic at Lullingstone Roman villa near Orpington, Kent. Experts believe it was the home of Pertinax, a former Roman Emperor


Celtic Pagano art -
- []: Relief of the Celtic God, Sucellus and his wife, Nantosuelta from Sarrebourg. Photograph attached to article at []

Celtic Christian art -
- ( []: St Chad gospels Vellum AD 700–800. Used by permission of the Chapter of Lichfield Cathedral. Full image []
- ( []: St John's Rinnagan crucifixion plaque, AD AD 700–800. Full image []


Mosaics of Ancient Roman Empire
* []: An ancient Roman mosaic in El Jem Museum in Tunisia
* []: Plato’s academy. Second style. Early 1st century B.C. Naples, National Archaeological Museum. From Pompeii (Villa of T. Siminius Stephanus). A group of philosophers - characterised by the typical garments associated with Greek orators and philosophers of the classical period. In the background there is a view of the acropolis of Athens. The sacred gateway with vases, the tree and the votive column, are all typical of a mythological landscape.


"Ancient Roman" technology
[] [] []

* "50 CE: A Steam Engine in Ancient RomeHero's Aeolipile (50 CE)" ( []:
Hero’s Aeolipile (50 CE)

In STEEPS categorization, this is a Scientific, Technological and Political counterfactual. In 50 CE, could Hero of Alexandria have invented the first practical steam engine for water pumping and transport, sixteen hundred years before impulse steam turbines were invented by Giovanni Branca (1629) and John Wilkins (1648)? It certainly seems so.
Hero was a prolific author (with seven known books) and an illustrious engineer. We think he invented the first vending machine, the first syringe, the first wind-powered machines, and many other mechanical contraptions. Most famously, he built a primitive rotary (reaction) steam engine, the Aeolipile, and published diagrams on it (right) in his work Pneumatica. He even used this device to open temple doors. Hero may not even have been the first inventor of this device, as an aeolipile was mentioned (though whether it had a rotating engine was not described) by the Roman engineer Vitruvius in the 1st century BCE in his incredible book on ancient engineering, De architectura.
Two thousand year old Ctesbius pump and fire (power water jet) hose, found in a copper mine in Spain (Museo Arqueológico Nacional de Madrid)

Hero also improved the efficiency of the hand water pump, which was originally invented by the Greek engineer Ctesibius circa 200 BCE.  The Romans even used Hero’s pump and a mechanical fire hose, to put out fires. Look at this amazing example (left) of Ctesibius’s/Hero’s pump, the sipho, described in ancient texts by Pliny and Vitruvius, found in perfect condition after two thousand years underground. It was used by Roman Vigiles, or firefighters, to put out fires, from a cistern pulled by horses, and filled by hand bucket brigades (right).
Ctesibius/Hero’s Water Pump and Forced-Jet Fire Hose, Used By Roman Firefighters

It is easy to argue that Hero’s version of the water pump, combined with a more efficient steam engine, could have led him to the steam engine’s first great application, steam-driven water pumping, an advance so valuable we think it would have found its way into broad use in Roman cities, regardless of social opposition. A significant benefit for any such technology would likely have been needed, because by the time of Empire, the Romans were mistrustful of technology. They only allowed it to proceed when it obviously served their goals.
In 2015, Theodosis Tassios published that Hero must have connected his Aolipile to his pump, creating the world’s first (impractical) steam-driven water pump. He was always looking for ways to make practical technology. Amazingly, all Hero would have needed to do, to make his aolipile practical, would have been to turn its rotating ball into a small windmill rotating on an axle inside a single output jet from his boiler. Alternatively, and less powerfully, even a system of multiple steam jets hitting cup-shaped windmill blades inside the power chamber might have been sufficiently efficient (picture right).

Either approach would have created the world’s first impulse turbine, and a practical rotary steam-driven water pump. A better way to pump water up into cisterns would have greatly improved Roman water works and aqueducts, which were highly valued by Roman nobility, and provided better irrigation for their fields, more Roman plumbing, baths, toilets, and sewer systems. Another obvious benefits of this pump, for any family that had one, would not just have been cisterns of water on the roof, providing pressurized water, but cisterns of hot water on the roof, for the baths of Roman nobility. The still-hot effluent from the boiler could have been collected in a separate cistern, and periodically pumped up by same water pump into insulated hot water cisterns on the roofs of Roman villas, and in the massive Roman public baths, which were heated by both wood and coal. Both the Greeks and the Romans used cork, asbestos, cavity walls, air gaps, and even special bricks for insulation. So insulated hot water cisterns for pump effluent is an obvious way to improve the value of the pump. With benefits like these it’s very easy to argue that steam-powered water pumps would have spread rapidly throughout both the Republic and Empire.
Hero’s Wind-Powered Organ

Do you think Hero could not have made the mental leap to from a spinning aeoliphile to a steam turbine? I would argue he was just one dream away from it. Recall that Hero built the first wind-powered machines. Look at this one (right), which he used to run the first wind-powered organ. In this particular artist’s conception, those blades look just like today’s steam turbine blades! I’d love to see the Mythbusters gang, or a curious craftsperson, build an impulse turbine version of the aeolipile, using a scaled down version of the blades from Hero’s wooden windmill. Hero would likely have built his first turbine blades out of bronze, or even wood in a prototype, but he would have soon moved to iron, then the toughest substance then known. He would likely have placed his boiler over a Roman blacksmith’s hearth, the hottest fires in Alexandria at the time. I bet that engine, hooked to his pump, would have pumped water like crazy, and been vastly superior to hand-chain water pumps used at the time. Anyone want to build one?
Hero’s steam-driven water pump, with adequate wood, collected by slaves, would have created great water pressure for whole neighborhoods in Roman cities. Such pumps would be much more efficient at filling high cisterns than the hand-operated chain pumps being used at the time. High water cisterns, as all Roman engineers knew, are a massive energy storage device. The flow of water from high to low cisterns, in plumbing, can be used not just for irrigation, baths, and sewers, but to run all kinds of small engines, to saw wood, to grind bread, and many other things. In addition to Pneumatica, Hero would have written a followup book, Hydraulica, on the flow of water to do even more useful things, as water is a noncompressible fluid of far higher density than air. Hero’s hydraulic engines could have run at first with water wheels, which were prevalent at the time, but his team would soon learn to use their newly invented spinning turbine blades, operating inside water pipes rather than inside steam boiler nozzles.
Having a way to get across their Empire faster would also have been of huge interest to Roman leaders. Thus it’s easy to imagine that steam powered propellers (turbines) for Roman warships would have been an another early experiment with these engines by nobility-backed engineers. The first military steamships might even have emerged ahead of the water pump, since improving the speed of Roman triremes was of great military interest. Seeing a way to much better aqueducts and plumbing would be nice, but having faster ships would have been vital to both the Republic and Empire.
Roman triremes had 170 rowers, and were generally very light, but many had massive front ends for ramming other ships. Most were optimized to run at six knots for very long distances across the Mediterranean. Steam turbines for ships were eventually invented by Charles Parsons for the British navy, in 1884. The top speed of Parson’s first steam-powered ship was 34 knots. I’d also love to see someone put Hero’s nearly-discovered impulse steam turbine engine on trireme, adding an external “windmill propeller” to the axle, another plausible early mental leap, to see if it would reliably run faster than six knots. I bet a version could easily be built that would run twice as fast, for very long distances. Anyone want to build one?
Tassios has also published arguments that Greek engineers could have invented the steam engine circa 200-100 BCE. That may be true, but with our current knowledge of history, Hero gets our vote as the most likely engineer to make a practical steam engine in ancient times, as we can see how close he was to harnessing this great natural energy source. He was close enough for us to cry a little that it was missed.
Digital Reconstruction of the Antikythera Mechanism, built circa 205 BCE (Courtesy Tony Freeth, 2013)

Historians sometimes argue that labor-saving machines weren’t generally needed in a time of slaves, and that most of the early Greeks and Roman philosophers had a bias against them. The first point has some truth but is an overstatement, and the latter point is true but irrelevant. History shows that both Greek and Roman cultures used lots of intricate labor and brain-saving machines when they served their purposes, and there were scores of Greek and Roman engineers like Ctebius and Hero who built such machines. It is true that engineers tended to be miserably poor, because their skills weren’t sufficiently appreciated by nobility. But they invented prolifically. For perhaps the most famous example, see the Antikythera mechanism, an orrery and analogue computer built by the Greeks circa 90 BCE, to get an appreciation of the extent of Greek mechanical ingenuity. The intricacy and intelligence built into this device takes your breath away. Recent scholars think it was built in Greece circa 205 BCE, not 100 BCE as originally estimated.
As we’ve argued, Roman slaves would have been used to collect vast amounts of wood to run Hero’s steam engines. Once Romans were collecting large amounts of wood, steam powered sawmills would have been another obvious next step. See this video of a DeLoach Steam Powered Sawmill from the 1890s. It’s easy to imagine Hero or his team building a primitive version.
1890's DeLoach Steam Powered Sawmill at the Georgia Museum of Agriculture (30:35) []
In addition to speed at sea, the Romans would have wanted to use steam to go faster by land. That too would likely have come soon after the first working steam engine. Let’s see why.
It’s hard for us today to appreciate the immense scale of Rome’s land-based engineering feats. According to, over 700 years, the Romans built over 55,000 miles of paved highways throughout Europe. That’s enough road to encircle the entire Earth, twice! That is a truly incredible feat, and an awesome focus and scale of engineering, when you think about it.
The Appian Way, for the most popular example, was a beautiful flat road which ran for 350 miles across Italy. Roman roads could be made smooth or rough depending on the size of their paving stones and the care taken in construction. See picture of a small section of the Way, with two paving stone sizes, at right.
Section of the Appian Way, with two paving stone sizes

Most obviously, the Romans could have built a steam-powered railroad, as even railroads, surprisingly, were also in common use at the time. Putting a heavy steam boiler on tracks and getting it to turn wheels fitted to a low-friction track is an obvious application, once you’ve got a good engine.
The ingenious Greeks had already built a human-powered railroad, the Diolkos, which ran for 8 km over the Isthmus of Corinth on the Pelepponesian peninsula, for at least seven hundred years, from 600 BCE to 100 CE. Archeologists tell us the Diolkos ferried boats across the isthmus, over an 8 kilometer track rising 75 meters above sea level at the top. This image (left) shows a very large ship being pulled on the Diolkos by slaves. In reality, most ferried ships were probably much smaller, the personal ships of nobility being taken over the hill to save sailing time. The Romans took over the running of this railway when they made Greece into a province in 146 BCE, and soon after they had at least one known railway operating at the Tres Minas gold mine in Portugal, and probably many more we don’t know about, for moving stone and other heavy objects on tracks.
Diolkos railway in Greece (600 BCE to 100 CE)

To run their engines quickly, Roman slaves would also have created a lot of charcoal from wood. Romans used both wood and charcoal for heating, but charcoal burns at up to five times higher temperature than wood, so it is the fastest fuel for steam engines. As it is labor-intensive, it makes sense to make it only when you really need high temperatures, as for blacksmithing, and running steam engines at high speed. Soon they would even have been mining vast amounts of coal, which burns nearly as hot as charcoal but is far easier to mine. Amazingly, the Romans were mining coal and using it to smelt iron in both the Rhineland and Roman Britain by the late 2nd century BCE. The Chinese were also using coal for heating as early as 1,000 BCE.Aeolipile Chariot (Courtesy Jason Torchinsky, 2012,
Aeolipile Chariot (Courtesy Jason Torchinsky, 2012,

The Romans might even have built a steam powered chariot. Take a look at Jason Torchinsky’s sepeculative model of an aeolipile-driven chariot (right). If Hero had created an impulse turbine aeolipile, a variation of this, without the middle support wheels, and with the front wheel relocated directly under the steering rudder, might actually have been fast at traveling Roman roads. The most important roads would have been made particularly flat, and perhaps eventually even asphalted as well. Thus Roman Railroads and Roman Automobiles are an alternative history that very nearly happened. Someone should write this as fictional story and movie. Perhaps this story already exists? Let us know if so!
The impacts of an Industrial Age Rome certainly would not have all been positive. Just like the European Industrial Age, we would have seen massive worker exploitation, deforestation, pollution, mechanized warfare, and many other negative consequences. The Roman Empire itself might have lasted a bit longer as well, though it fell largely because of social and political, not technical reasons. But I think it is easy to argue that a Western Dark Ages, after the fall of Rome, if any, would have been vastly shorter, and as a species, we would have have learned our way out of our industrial age excesses much earlier, moving into today’s information age centuries earlier than we actually did. Foresight matters!

* "RAILWAYS IN THE GREEK AND ROMAN WORLD" (by Dr M J T Lewis, University of Hull) (.pdf) []

* "Ancient Greeks were a step away from creating a steam powered water pump" (2016-02-04, []:
The ancient inventors of the Hellenistic era were a step away from creating a water pump driven by steam and a piston that set the beginning of the modern industrial revolution, as stated by professor Theodosis Tassios at the National Polytechnic University Metsovio and honorary professor Michalis Tiverios at Aristotle University of Thessaloniki during an event at the House of Music, entitled "Did the Ptolemaic contemporaries have a steam powered water pump?"
As Theodosis Tassios pointed out, at the time of the Ptolemaic dynasty, scientists had invented one after another all the necessary mechanical elements (bars, pipes, gears, turbines, etc.) that would allow them to use the wind and water energy to create pumps. Thus, they used wind and hydraulic energy. Furthermore, they made the first step to steam driven mechanisms by converting thermal energy into kinetic.
According to Theodosis Tassios, ancient Greeks were very close, namely between 10 and 100 years maximum, to inventing a steam driven water pump, and exactly they would have put the beginning of the industrial revolution long before it occurred. In the end, this happened in 1776, when the Scottish engineer James Watt invented such a water pump.
Professor Tiverios in turn stated that only around 2.5% of the ancient historical texts have been preserved, thus not excluding the probability of the steam machine to have been invented, even if a pump was created in the form of a toy, and of the technology to have been forgotten afterwards. However, no such testimony and evidence have been found, at least to the present day.
Theodosis Tassios, who is also president of the Society for the Study of Ancient Greek Technology, believes that ancient Greeks were very close to the "source" due to their impressive scientific and technological progress but ultimately, they failed to go so far as to use steam to drive a pump and respectively, to create the steam engine.
The two scientists talked about the important work of inventors Ctesibius (3rd century BC, the founder of the school of mathematics and mechanics in Alexandria), Philo of Byzantium (a student of Ctesibius) and Heron of Alexandria (probably the 1st century AD), whose inventions demonstrated the advancement of the Greek applied science and technology. Many of the writings by the Greek engineers and inventors have been preserved in Arabic translations, as stated by professor Tiverios.
Theodosis Tassios emphasized the passion of ancient Greeks for technology, noting that even the Homeric epics talks about automatic vessels and robotic vessels. Later, the combination of cosmopolitanism (especially in Alexandria), the emerging middle class and the interests of the Ptolemaic contemporaries led to significant inventions, as demonstrated by the Antikythera Mechanism (also known as the Antikythera astrolabe). Naturally, the question remains whether these technologies were commonly used or if they were the privilege of a small group of people.

* "Ancient Greek 'Computer' Came with a User Guide" (2016-06-23, []
* "Photos: Ancient Greek Inscriptions Revealed on Antikythera Mechanism" (206-06-23, []:
- Antikythera Mechanism: Divers pulled the first fragments of what became known as the Antikythera mechanism from a shipwreck in 1901. The shipwreck was discovered off the coast of the Greek island Antikythera, and hence led to the device's name. Ever since the discovery, scientists and historians have been trying to learn more about the shoebox-sized device's purpose.
For instance, they now know it was a bronze astronomical calculator that may have helped the ancient Greeks track the positions of the sun and the moon, the lunar phases, and even cycles of Greek athletic competitions. Even so, 82 corroded metal fragments of the Antikythera mechanism contain inscriptions that aren't clearly visible to the naked eye. Here's how scientists have cracked some of these inscriptions.

- Inscriptions Revealed: With new imaging techniques like CT scanning, researchers can finally read some of the text that had previously eluded scholars on the enigmatic Antikythera mechanism. This bronze astronomical calculator was discovered at the site of an ancient Greek ship.
Detail of Fragment 19 where numbers 76, 19 and 223 are clearly visible in this enhanced PTM image.

- Technology reveals the hidden: Techniques like CT imaging (top row) and polynomial texture mapping, or PTM, (bottom row) make it much easier to read the text of the so-called Parapegma Inscription on from Fragment C-1.

- Plate fragments: Here a CT composite image of the plate fragments of the front cover inscription.

- Reversed and Not: The inscription on the back cover shown in a mirror-reversed photograph (left), and a CT composite image (right). The back cover inscriptions seem to be a user manual of sorts, the researchers said.

- Preserved inscription: A CT composite image of the back cover Inscription preserved in the fragment called B.

- Metonic cycle: Fragment B-1 shows part of the back cover. At the right, parts of the Metonic Dial scale inscriptions are exposed. The Metonic cycle was about 19 years, marking a near-common multiple of the solar year and lunar month.

- Bringing clarity: Fragment 19, which is a piece of the device’s back cover, is much more clear in a PTM visualization. With PTM, different lighting conditions can be simulated to reveal surface details on artifacts that might otherwise be hidden.

- Antikythera diagram: This diagram shows how the surviving fragments would have fit into the device. The mechanism was about the size of a shoebox and contained a complex system of gears on the inside, which turned dials on the outside that showed the position of the planets, the lunar calendar and other cosmological cycles.

- Housed in a museum: The 82 known fragments of the Antikythera mechanism are now housed in Greece’s National Archaeological Museum.


* " ‘Made In Roma’: Ancient Romans Proudly Branded Their Products, Ranging From Glassware To Weaponry" ( []

* "10 Fascinating Things You Should Know About The Imperial Roman Legionary" ( []

* "5 Mins Of Majestic Animation Presents Ancient Rome At Its Peak In 320 AD" ( []

* "4th Century Roman Fort Remnants Possibly Discovered Near The Infamous Lancaster Castle In Britain" (2016-06-03, []

* "Carthage Employed Liquid Cooling System For Chariot Races Inside The City’s Circus" ( []